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How To Make Better Business, Selling And Life Decisions

Michael Veltri is a leadership expert, nationwide Bestselling author, and top-rated business transformation keynote speaker.

In this episode of the Salesman Podcast, Michael explains how to make better decisions that have a long-lasting impact on your level of success in life and business.

You'll learn:

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Featured on this episode:

Host - Will Barron
Founder of Salesman.org
Guest - Michael Veltri
Battle-hardened entrepreneur, bestselling author, and top-rated keynote speaker

Resources:

Transcript

Will Barron:

This episode of the show is brought to you from the Salesman.org HubSpot Studio. Coming up on today’s episode of the Salesman podcast.

 

Michael Veltri:

Like anything we do Will, decision-making is a practise. It’s like lifting weights. The more you do it, right? Because there are some people that don’t make decisions, they push it off to their bosses. The four S’s Will, support, structure, sufficient for success. Support, structures, sufficient for success.

 

Will Barron:

Hello sales nation, my name is Will Barron. I’m the host of the Salesman podcast. The world’s most downloaded B2B sales show. On today’s episode, we have an absolute legend, he’s been on the show a bunch of times now, we have Michael Veltri. You can find him over at Michaelveltri.com. He is a leadership keynote speaker. He’s an expert in decision-making, and that’s exactly what we’re talking about on today’s show. How to make better, both short and long-term decisions. There’s tonnes of strategy in this episode. There’s tonnes to go at. And so with that said, let’s jump right into it.

 

Will Barron:

Michael, welcome back again to the Salesman podcast.

 

Michael Veltri:

Thank you, Will. It’s so good to see you and thanks for having me back.

 

How Important Is Our Ability to Make Good Decisions Related To Our Success in Life? · [01:22] 

 

Will Barron:

You’re more than welcome, sir. It’s good to see you as well. I enjoy our conversations and on today’s show, we’re going to dive into decision-making and hopefully, we’ll wrap up the show with how to make better decisions. And of course the benefits of that as well. But just to tee things up and to frame up the rest of the conversation, how important is…sounds like a crazy question to ask because clearly, it’s impossible. How important is the ability to make good decisions and how much of our success in sales and in life in general, how much of that is tied to the ability to make sound decisions?

 

“Like anything we do, decision-making is a practise.” – Michael Veltri  · [01:45] 

 

Michael Veltri:

Yeah. It’s funny, these sound decisions, what was a sound decision last year might be different than what it is this year, depending on where we are. But like anything we do Will, decision-making is a practise. It’s like lifting weights. The more you do it, right? Because there are some people that don’t make decisions, they push it off to their bosses or to their partners or to whoever. So what I would say is, what’s important is make decisions. Whether they’re good, bad, or in between practise making decisions.

 

Michael Veltri:

And then what that leads to is what I call a decision tree. If you’re completely happy with the decision, you’re like, I knocked that out of the park. What did you learn from it? But as we know, if it doesn’t go, as we planned, which happens a lot, that’s okay too, because what you do next is important. So if I make a decision to hire an employee or take on a speaking opportunity and it wasn’t what I thought it was. Do I say was that a bad decision? Maybe, but what do I do next? What can I learn from it? If I keep making the same bad decision over and over, that’s no good. So it’s a practise and get out there, make decisions, get it wrong, get it right. Learn from it.

 

Is it Human Nature For People to Continuously Make The Same Mistakes? · [02:56] 

 

Will Barron:

This is a commonly, I’m going to butcher the quote. I don’t remember it verbatim. And it was wrongfully attributed to Einstein. He didn’t say this, but there’s this saying of someone who does the same thing over and over and over and expecting a different result. They’re insane. Clearly we know that to be true, that’s fundamentally true. Why is it Michael, that we all make stupid decisions and we carry on doing it. Whether it’s sales, we make the stupid calls, we make wrong emails, we take shortcuts. Or in relationships, we keep getting with the wrong people over and over. Why is it seemingly human nature to make the wrong decisions over and over?

 

“People tend to make the same bad decisions over and over because they don’t have a support structure.” – Michael Veltri · [03:57] 

 

Michael Veltri:

The four S’s, Will. Support, structure, sufficient for success. Support, structure, sufficient for success. What experience has shown me in all the years I’ve been researching and practising this, because I still practise like I’m my own Guinea pig in decision-making and leadership is what I’ve noticed is people tend to make the same bad decisions over and over because they don’t have a support structure. And that could be a person, a romantic partner, a wife, or a business partner that they trust. That can smack them in the face and say, hey, you’re doing this wrong. We need these support structures.

 

Michael Veltri:

I was telling to you earlier, I have a seven year old daughter. So I am very vested in making good decisions because my support structure is my family. When I’m single, I can screw life up and be okay with it. But now that support structure is my family, my ageing parents. With COVID, I can’t visit my parents. So we have the support structure is sufficient. Because we can have support structures, but they’re not sufficient because we all have resistance. Some of us hardheaded people need a real big smack to get past our resistance. So, support structures, sufficient for sales success, for life success, will help you get out of that pitfall of making the same mistake over and over.

 

Will Barron:

I’m not talking about your daughter here because clearly that will push you towards making good decisions and good long-term decisions as opposed to going and getting COVID and spreading it around. And clearly you can’t do that because you’ve got responsibility. The same way myself, with our new puppy, Walter. This is a ridiculous rule because it’s very unlikely to ever be activated in that one of us, me and my partner, is if we would have a glass of wine or whatever, is staying under the legal drinking limit in case we need to pop to the vet. I’m sure that will disappear over time as we become less anxious about this dog eating random things around the house and having to go to the vet with him. But the environment that we have there and our support structure, both with your kid and our dog is hopefully leading us in the right direction with a few things.

 

How to Gauge Whether Your Environment Favours Good or Bad Decision-Making Abilities · [06:01]

 

Will Barron:

Where’s the line where environment can cause us issues. Say I am single, I’m ready to mingle and I’ve got friends who are bad influences. Well then my environment is going to negatively affect my decision making. How do we know whether our environment is either good for us or bad for us other than the obvious cliche examples, I just give you.

 

Michael Veltri:

That leads me to another thing I often talk to audiences about, is our various stages of wellbeing. There’s our personal well-being, our mental well-being, our emotional well-being, our financial wellbeing. What I’ve noticed is when our well-being starts taking a serious hit is what forces someone to not just change Will, we can change our clothes and then we can change back into them. But we transform, so maybe it’s a maturity, transformation is permanent. The caterpillar transforms into the butterfly. Your puppy is growing, it’s transforming into a bigger dog. It’s not going to go back to a tiny, cute little puppy.

 

“When your well-being cup finally gets to the point where you’re thirsty enough, that’s what forces a person to look hard and make those transformations.” – Michael Veltri · [07:53] 

 

Michael Veltri:

Once your well-being cup gets sufficiently empty and that could be, your finances are drained. You just wake up miserable each morning because you’re not happy with those life decisions. You’re not happy with the people you’ve surrounded yourself with. You’re not happy with your actual physical environment. What I talk a lot about is, and we’re seeing with COVID is your environmental well-being. Your three places you spend the most time, work, home, and then wherever, the martial arts academy, school activities. Well COVID has put your three places into one. I’m at my home office right now and I’ve set it up. So it is just invigorating and gets me going because I’m spending a lot of time here. So I would say that. Is when your well-being cup finally gets to the point where you’re thirsty enough, that’s what forces a person to look hard and make those transformations. Changes, again, we can change right back to bad habits but we need to make those incremental transformations that are permanent.

 

Is it Fair to Say That Our Decisions In One Area of Life Can Affect How We Handle Decisions Elsewhere? · [08:16]

 

Will Barron:

I love this analogy because this works both ways. Of if we’re having a terrible time at sales, we might start making terrible decisions at home. I guess a flippant example would be, if we’ve had a rubbish day at work, we might make rubbish food decisions. Or we might pig out on some pizza and have a few drinks and watch the UFC or whatever it is. As opposed to, if we’ve had a great day at work, we’ve seen success and we’re in a positive feedback loop. Maybe I’m pushing things here with this analogy, maybe we would read a book instead and we’d kind of double down on things. Is it fair to say then that our decisions in one area of our life, it’s difficult to segment them from decisions elsewhere?

 

Michael Veltri:

Yeah, it’s very difficult. It’s that feedback loop that you were talking about Will. It is very tough to say, Hey, you know what, I’ve made 300 calls today and I’ve got hung up on 299 times. And the one time, it was a wrong number. It’s really tough to take that and just throw it off your shoulders and be cheery. I think it goes back to what you and I first talked about. Do you have sufficient support structures for your success? We’re going to have those days, heck, we might have a week, a month, a year like that i.e. COVID. And so we’ve got to be able to look at that. And then at some point, when do you stop banging your head against the wall and say, hey, I got to look hard at what I’m doing here and make some serious incremental transformations to move this forward too.

 

“I’ve noticed that as my personal life flourishes, so does my professional. My professional life flourishes, it helps my personal, and so on, so forth.” – Michael Veltri · [10:08] 

 

Michael Veltri:

One thing begets another, for example, I’ve been through a tough divorce, I don’t know if I’ve shared that with you. I’m happily remarried now, those dark days of the divorce, it absolutely impacted my professional life. So that well-being too, your personal well-being, your professional well-being, I noticed that as my personal life flourishes, so does my professional. My professional life flourishes, it helps my personal so on, so forth. The challenge is as we work to make decisions to hopefully marry those two and help them pull us forward.

 

Will Barron:

I love this because we do these consulting sessions over at salesman.org and with executives and high-flying sales professionals. And maybe eight times out of ten that we do them it comes down to, are you exercising? Are you meditating? You have some kind of mindfulness practise so you can refocus and reset yourself if you have a difficult moment during the day. It’s things that our grandmother told us that we should and shouldn’t do that we honestly, on these consulting calls, we come back to time and time again. And productivity, come back to, are you doing the things that move the needle? Or are you just doing random crap that you’re doing to please other people as opposed to move your career forward? So I love it when we get back to basics for all of this.

 

Practical Frameworks For Effective Decision-Making · [11:05]

 

Will Barron:

With that then Michael, are there any frameworks to make a good decision? It seems like short term decisions are, if you’re in the right mindset, if you have the right information in front of you, it’s easy to say, hey, I should do this because I’m going to get Y results. But what I’m really interested in, are their frameworks that help with longer term decisions where we don’t get an instantaneous feedback loop. Is there any way we can use a framework or model to improve our decision making there?

 

“One choice is not a choice. Two is just a dilemma. You need three choices to truly have a choice.” – Michael Veltri · [12:55] 

 

Michael Veltri:

I’m going to share one solution I like to give. And again, tomes have been written on this so I’m going to try and give you a short, easy rule for all the listeners and everyone that we can do it. I call this Will, I don’t know if I’ve shared this with you before, I call it the rule of three. And it’s a very simple rule that will help us. And I’ll give a jujitsu analogy too, in all aspects of our life, and it works like this. The rule of three, it’s a saying. One, choice is not a choice. Two is just a dilemma, either this or that, you need three choices to truly have choice. One choice is not a choice. Two is just a dilemma. You need three choices to truly have a choice. And so what I’m getting at with that is if we, me, you, your listeners, if you are giving yourself three empowering choices to choose from in your life, chances are you’re going to be making better decisions.

 

“Too few decisions is just as bad as too many. The mind can only handle three pieces of information at once.” – Michael Veltri · [12:49]

 

Michael Veltri:

How many times have we said, I’ve only got, this is all I can do, right? No, nonsense. You need to try harder, get other people involved to come up with two or obviously three more, if you don’t want to give yourself four or five, that’s too many. Well, too few decisions is just as bad as too many. The mind can only handle three pieces of information at once. So again, when we’re looking at tough situations, COVID, increasing sales, hire this person, fired this person, get out of a bad relationship, get into a great relationship, what are our three choices? If you always work with three, you’re going to start seeing things that we don’t know that we don’t know.

 

Michael Veltri:

Things are in our blind spots. I don’t know what these hands are doing back here, are they misbehaving or they’re being good? But when I start to force myself to come up with three choices, I start to see that. And then again, you can still make a really lousy choice because you have to choose it. But I tell you, if you push yourself, think about when we’re stuck in sparring like with jujitsu, if you only see one way out maybe you try that, it leads to the second and you finally get out on the third try. So one choice is not a choice. Two is just a dilemma, either this or that. Three choices truly have choice. If you try that rule of three, I promise you’re going to start making better decisions now, down the road, in the future. And again, depending on how much time we have, I wanted to come with a little nugget that hopefully will really add value to your listeners today.

 

When Faced With an Important Decision, What Would Michael Do? Would He Rather Make Five Rapid Iterative Decisions or One Long and Slow But Deliberate Decision? · [14:33]

 

Will Barron:

The jujitsu analogy might work for yourself, being a black belt, no multiple ways to get around things. For myself, I see one option, Kimura trap, Kimura trap, Kimura trap, come on. Okay, it’s failed. You’d be crushed. I love the analogy and how that kind of works when we do have multiple options. And I like this because, and this is something I don’t do often enough. I like to, I think there’s value in this. You can tell me your thoughts on this in a second, Michael. I think there’s value in making quick decisions. So I focus on if there’s something in front of me, I decide, I decide, I decide. But in hindsight, as you lay that out, there’s clearly value in the third decision here. Because you’re going to have the decision that your gut’s telling you to move towards, which is what I typically do.

 

Will Barron:

The obvious one is going to be, do the opposite of that or take no action. But when you force yourself to go for that third decision, you probably, as you rightly said, open your eyes and give your subconscious the opportunity to do a little bit more exploration rather than going up the hill, down the hill, if you can go around it and that’s going to be easier as well. What value do you put on, and obviously this is massively context dependent. I appreciate that. But what value do you put on quick decision making, as opposed to making slower, more conscious decisions? Let me put it to you like this, would you rather make five rapid iterative decisions or one long slow deliberate one?

 

Michael Veltri:

Yeah, no, I love to do both, but the micro decisions like I call them Will, man are so important. And Malcolm Gladwell wrote a great book that I highly recommend called Blink. And it talks about the decisions we make in a blink of an eye that, and this concept of thin slicing that we know in a blink of an eye, right from wrong, to go on that person’s podcast or to say no, or to trust that person. And that’s what you were talking about five, ten minutes ago, where we take care of our well-being, we meditate, we’re focused, we’re rested, recharged, that helps us on those micro decisions. And we don’t need three for anything like that. I’m talking about more of the thoughtful decisions where we’re working on this project, or what guests do you want on next? Or where does the Salesman Podcast, where does that go down the road? I myself had to apply this principle just recently as I was looking at my life and my career. And maybe I can share with you and your audience, what I was faced with.

 

Will Barron:

For sure, yeah.

 

Michael Veltri:

As COVID hit, as a professional keynote speaker, I became very challenged like any other live performer. Musician, bartenders, gym owners, anywhere large people congregate. I was faced with all of my keynote speaking friends. Wow, what’s going on here? So what do I do? And I was looking at this, that, do I fight and try to get in live audiences? Do I do virtual? Virtual has been going great. And in that quiet time Will, where I pushed myself to practise what I preached, to come up with three, I realised as you know, I lived in Japan for 10 years, I have this never-ending passion for all things, Japanese.

 

Michael Veltri:

I based my thought, leadership and methodology on Japanese principles. Well, where I live in Southern California, I was aware of four top 10 graduate programmes in Japanese language and culture that I applied. And I’m very happy to tell you, I’ll be starting my PhD programme in Japanese language and culture. Which I never would have thought about had I just said I got to go virtual, or I need to do more consulting. But a PhD programme, which is also going to open a whole new group of people I can speak to, that I can consult with, that I can grow with. That will make my thought leadership material relevant for years to come. I never could have seen that coming. So if I didn’t apply the rule of three myself, I don’t know if I would have seen this PhD programme opportunity. And so in fall, I’ll be starting my PhD. I’ve got a few more years of study and fun and I’m happy to share that with you guys, as an example.

 

Will Barron:

I love this. We touched on this before I hit record, and I am so excited about this because this makes… What’s the point in doing all the keynotes and clearly you enjoy doing the keynotes, but all the work and the hustle, if there’s no payoff. Because I find that myself, I’m a massive sucker for this. I will not get in a rut, the opposite of a rut, I will have almost like a flywheel of success. It’s spinning up and it’s spinning up. And the podcast sucked at the beginning, hopefully sucks a little bit less now, but certainly more people tune in and pay attention to it. We’ve got bigger sponsors and the training that we’re doing, because just right place at the right time. We have our online training for salespeople and our audience over at salesman.org. This flywheel spinning and spinning and spinning or something that I’m concerned about is my decision to continue moving forward with all this, doubling down on it.

 

Michael Talks About When to Influence Change and Effective Decision-Making · [ [19:30]

 

Will Barron:

And again, that flywheel moving even faster and faster, and it’s heavier and heavier that as some point, I’m going to feel guilty to leave it behind. And at some point, I don’t want to do this forever. At some point, I’ll have covered all the content I could. By this time next year, we probably have done a thousand episodes of the show. That’s a lot of conversations about a relatively slim topic. How do we know there Michael, when we should make a decision to move left or right, or do something else? We can leave sales to one side for a minute. We’ve got the career in that, that’s hopefully paying our bills and keeping our family safe and secure. But outside of sales, perhaps, how do we know when it’s time to make the decision to just have a real change?

 

“When we quiet the mind, we can start to see what’s there.” – Michael Veltri · [21:01]

 

Michael Veltri:

The title of my book that came out a couple of years ago, The Mushin Way to Peak Performance, Mushin is a Japanese word that literally means no mind. And I like to explain it as no distractions or that visceral clarity Will, where we quiet things down. We remove the excess noise, very tough to do, very tough to do. Puppy, seven-year-old, COVID, no COVID, podcast, speaking, whatever. Whether we’re forced to quiet down, you may recall, I am follicly challenged because I lost my hair going through chemotherapy. As a cancer survivor that forced me to quiet down. This is 13, 14 years ago, and go through that. COVID forced me to slow down. I still meditate regularly and try to quiet the mind. When we quiet the mind, we can start to see what’s there.

 

Michael Veltri:

I think all of us know what we should be doing. Ultimately, you know what you should be doing too, but it’s covered up with the noise. With the, what you call the flywheel of success, it’s turning, it’s turning, it’s turning. Once we put a pin in it, once we stop that, we start to see, and we’re still put at choice Will with it. We might see it, I’ve always known I wanted to do a graduate programme then I finally saw, hey, PhD. And then I still had to make a good choice, I had to go for it. When we quiet ourselves down, whether it’s by our circumstances, cancer survivor, COVID. We don’t want to have to wait until it’s some big oh my gosh thing that quiets you down, but how great would it be if you say, once a month, this is my quiet time. I’m just going to shut off from everything and I’m going to take a look at where I’m at. And I’m going to see what I see.

 

“Build time in your schedule to quiet the mind because at some point you’ll become successfully miserable.” – Michael Veltri · [22:23] 

 

Michael Veltri:

And if you do that and you start to hear that whisper of possibility, whisper of a way forward, whisper of a third way that you might not have ever thought of, a PhD or whatever’s next for you. But it’s a practise, practising that quieting the mind, that mushin, and why not build time in your schedule to quiet the mind, because at some point you’ll become successfully miserable. That forces you, whether it’s burnout, you walk away from the podcast because you’re just so through. But let’s get ahead of that so you just remain successful without being successfully miserable. Because that’s also a way where you’re forced to be quiet. I was there where I became successfully miserable. And I don’t want that for anybody too. So I think if we go out of our way to practise quieting the mind, start to look there, you’ll start to see it. You’ll start to hear that whisper and it’ll become louder. And then hopefully you’ll have the tools to make a good decision going forward.

 

Will Barron:

And I guess it’s almost Freudian that I bring this up because it’s something I’m pondering on at the moment. So there’s still a podcast, it’s still going to carry on. There’s no issue there, I enjoy doing it. But I’ve literally not taken a full week from work in four years, five years. I read recently, I can’t remember where I was reading it, but I was reading loads about Bill Gates and what he does, how much he reads books and how he pulls data together and then allows him to make strategic decisions because he’s better informed than the other people around him. Be like Warren Buffett, reads tonnes of books. Successful people tend to read lots of books or consume a lot of appropriate high-level content.

 

How Taking Breaks Can Improve Your Mental Clarity and Ability To Make Better Decisions · [23:49] 

 

Will Barron:

And in this thing I was reading about Bill Gates he was saying that every quarter, no matter what, he has a week off, he does nothing. He literally just sits there or not literally, that’s the wrong word, but it would be a week off if you just sat there in your own filth, just being fed. But he literally has a week off and does nothing, just chills out. And he uses that as a moment to generate clarity from all of the data because whatever I’m feeling, clearly, Bill Gates has a lot more on his shoulders, a lot more pressure and a lot more going on than I will ever experience in my life. And rightly so, he develops what he’s developed and he’s built what he’s built. So he deserves both sides of things. I’ve got a week coming up in four weeks from now, I’ve got a week off. It’s the first time in four or five years to do so, but I’m worried, Michael, I’m worried I’m not going to take it off. I’m worried I’m just going to start working with [inaudible [00:24:42] . I might as well just crack on.

 

Michael Veltri:

No, will you have to dude, I’m 52 and I had never taken a two week vacation until age 40 and I was burning out. And so I love that. I just think about like today I take my daughter to school and I do a walk and it’s a 30 minute walk. I’ll tell you during those quiet times is when I come up with some of the best ideas. I love this idea of taking a week off. And I’m sure anyone who’s watching the podcast is vested in their own growth and development. So they’re workaholics they’re educationaholics and maybe they’re not good at taking time off. So whether it’s a week off or three days off, I love building that into your schedule once a quarter. And you will come back with more ideas. Rest and recharge. Whether it’s Whatever going forward, I love that idea. And I think it’s really important.

 

Feasible Decision-Making Frameworks For Tackling Big, Hairy, Audacious Goals · [26:08]

 

Will Barron:

I’ll report back to yourself, but to the podcast as well as to how it goes but I’m genuinely committed to this. And as I said, well, two weeks off frigging heck, I’ve never had two weeks off in the whole of my life ever. Maybe at uni when I was skiving I had two weeks off at Christmas, that was since high school. So we’ve got frameworks for, I guess, short decision cycles, medium decision cycles. And I guess there’s this rule of three, coming up with three alternatives before we make a decision, works for long-term as well. But what do we do if we have a big audacious goal, how do we backtrack from that and make good decisions now to almost invest into the goal over time and to make it happen? Is there anything we need to do? And when we’re talking about big, hairy, audacious goals with regards to decision-making.

 

“We are the average of the five people we spend the most time with” – Michael Veltri · [27:09] 

 

Michael Veltri:

There’s a very simple sentence and I wouldn’t say it’s rhetorical because you should be asking it and answering it, not just yourself, but your team. And it goes like this. What would have to be true for this option to be the best choice? What would have to be true for this option to be the best choice? I know it’s simple, many times we don’t break it down that simple. What would have to be true for this option to be the best choice? And that might open up other things forward. But many times, as a decisive person, we jump into action but it might not be the best action. And more importantly, we are the average of the five people we spend the most time with, Will. The more quality people you surround yourself with, like you said about Bill Gates, getting all the information. If you and your team are asking that question and poking holes in it, what would have to be true for this option to be the best choice?

 

Michael Veltri:

Chances are you’re going to be making better and better decisions, especially if it’s big, scary ones. Relationship ones, making a decision to get divorced was huge. Making a decision to get remarried, was huge. Making a decision to get a puppy, huge? These are big decisions, making a decision to sign on to a PhD programme. Everything rule of three, I did, answer that question. What would have to be true for getting this PhD to be the best option?

 

“If you’re trying to answer all of the big, hairy stuff yourself, you’re going to miss a tonne of stuff. Get other people involved, people that can tell you no.” – Michael Veltri · [28:25] 

 

Michael Veltri:

It took me talking to my wife, running that past her, thinking about our future, time commitments, everything. So that simple question, what would have to be true for this option to be the best choice allows you to start to you and your team to start to think more. And that would be the other thing I would say is team. If you’re trying to answer all of the big, hairy stuff yourself, you’re going to miss a tonne of stuff. Get other people involved, people that can tell you no. No, Michael don’t do that PhD, you’re nuts. And I needed people to push back and kick those tyres. So have a team, run that question and when those big scary decisions come up, you’re able to tackle them more and more.

 

Will Barron:

I love this question because it forces you to test your assumptions. So we make decisions all day, day in, day out, whether it’s cognitive biases, whether it is just routine and repetition, whether it is the fact that we’ve just never pondered on these things. We probably make tonnes of bad decisions every day and we will make some good decisions on good assumptions as well. That there’s no data on, there’s no relevance. We don’t have the correct information to make these decisions, but perhaps it’s worked once. And so we try it again and we try it again and try it again until it fails.

 

Is There Anything We Can Do to Make Ourselves More Aware of The Assumptions or Cognitive Biases That we Have? · [29:22] 

 

Will Barron:

Is there anything else that we can do to make us more aware of the assumptions that we have or any cognitive biases that we have? Because I know, I can’t remember the name of the cognitive bias now but there’s a cognitive bias where essentially once you invest into something, you’re far more likely to keep going down that path rather than make a clean break and move to a new decision, which is probably better overall net net. Is there anything we can do to become more aware of cognitive biases and to become more aware of assumptions and bad data?

 

“If you put on a pair of rose coloured sunglasses, you’re going to see everything through those rose coloured lenses.” – Michael Veltri · [29:53] 

 

Michael Veltri:

It’s like if you put on a pair of rose coloured sunglasses, you’re going to see everything through those rose coloured lenses. You like them. Sometimes it usually takes someone else coming and taking them off of you. So I’d go back to what I just said about who you surround yourself with. Do you have a coach that is coaching you that can look at you and give you honest feedback? Do you have people around you? If it’s left up to ourselves, we’re going to continue to wear those rose coloured sunglasses or green coloured ones or whatever and see life through those lenses. We need somebody else to reflect back to us, a spouse, a business partner, a mentor, a parent, somebody like that. So I would say, and especially in this day of COVID where we’re much more insulated, get people around you. Get involved in a mastermind group, people that can say, hey, what are you doing?

 

Michael Veltri:

You’re wearing rose coloured sunglasses, you look like an idiot, take those off. And then when you take them off, you’re like, oh, wow. I didn’t know that, I didn’t even know I was wearing the sunglasses, but that’s where we need other people. And again, other strong people to get in our life and show us where we’re going. That would be my best advice. That’s what’s worked for me because I know if I’m left to my own devices, I’m going to have those blinders on and think I’m doing great. We need other people to smack us in the face show us what’s going on. And then, again, we’re still put at choice. You still have a chance to say yes or no to it. And hopefully you take the correct path.

 

When Making Decisions, Which One is More Effective, Avoiding Pain or Following Success? · [31:45] 

 

Will Barron:

Which one of these is more powerful? Maybe this is how I’m wired but I feel like the negative way is probably more powerful for me. We can look for people to test our assumptions, so it doesn’t have to be physically asking questions or having a mentor. It could be, this person got where I want to go. They took these actions, so I should take these actions. I find that motivating for like 15 seconds and then it goes in one ear and out the other. I find it more motivating, again, this might be unhealthy over the long term, but to look at people who are not having success or are in the position I would be, if I plodded along and didn’t keep moving forward, or people that have had issues and I go, okay, they’ve made these decisions. I’ve got to do the opposite of that to just avoid pain, as opposed to a move to success. Is their one system here that is going to be more effective, or going to encourage you to make bigger decisions, more accurate decisions, better than the other?

 

“Success Leaves Clues” – Michael Veltri · [32:55] 

 

Michael Veltri:

First of all I love that we’re having this conversation. This is why you’re where you’re at. First of all, I would love for people to do either of them. Success leaves clues. Clues. It’s not a fail safe way. I also like what you just said unsuccess leaves clues too, like, don’t do this. But A you’re going to have to want to look for them and B you’re going to have to, so I think both are okay, like success does leave clues, but I don’t think there is a fail safe blueprint. Because if it worked for this person, Joe Schmoe, Joe Schmoe or Joezette Schmoe might be completely different from me.

 

Michael Veltri:

Just like you said, after 15 seconds I get bored. It might not work, but it does leave clues. So I would say what’s more important is look for those clues, maybe these four things, Ooh, I want to try these two, but these, eh, I’m not too interested in that. So I’m not going to say which one’s better. The simple fact that you’re looking for something is great. Look for those clues, whether it was a successful clue or unsuccessful clue and see how they apply to your life, go for it.

 

Will Barron:

And slight hindsight there, just pondering as you’re sharing that, Michael, it might be that I’m in a really good place right now. I’m under underestimating my happiness, because if my focus is on not having a sucky life, it probably means that I’m in a good place to start. My neutral here is probably a good place. And I don’t find it as motivating to want to move on to the next level, to do this, do this.

 

Why Sometimes it’s Okay Not To Want More in Life · [34:26] 

 

Will Barron:

I’m more interested in keeping what I have and building, especially business-wise, I’m more interested in, I love what we’re doing, building moats around it, making it difficult for people to not necessarily copy, but to come along and to overtake us. From us being the biggest building, as opposed to knocking other buildings down. I feel like you’ve psychoanalysed me here at our conversation of maybe I’m just in a good place. And maybe there’s people listening to this who are in a good place, and we want to just continue on the right path, as opposed to always having to go to the next level, always have to, next sale job, leadership, this, that, and that is it. Is it fair to say that it’s fine to be fine. We don’t always have to be going to another level.

 

“We’re always looking for the next and often we will miss what’s right in front of our face.” – Michael Veltri · [35:10] 

 

Michael Veltri:

Bravo will, especially when you said like me, you’ve never taken time off. We’re always looking for the next and often we will miss what’s right in front of our face. And we miss enjoying the present and your present might be pretty damn good. All things aside, I’ve got a pretty doggone cool present. Right now, I get to do this with you when I get done, I’m going to prep for like some really cool S H I T if may say that on your podcast. Be careful about always looking for the next, the next, the next. Of course, we got a plan, but don’t forget to enjoy what you got.

 

Will Barron:

As you say that, I feel like I picture a hamster in a hamster wheel just running faster and faster, but not get anywhere. Someone’s probably said that to me on the podcast, that it’s kind of slipped out there and I can’t accredit it to anyone. But it seems like, especially in sales where every year you crush it, your target goes up, you crush it, your target goes up. There’s never ending. So I guess having a little bit of humility to the reason that we’re actually on the planet earth to where it’s a spiritual belief they have, or religious belief, or like me who has neither but I’m here for the fun and the good times. As opposed to a deeper meaning to things, I guess a little bit of, what’s the word I’m looking for, Michael? A little bit of just pondering on your own existence. Probably does people good, right?

 

Michael Veltri:

Yeah.

 

The Advise Michael of 2021 Would Give to Pre-Covid Michael on Becoming Better at Selling · [36:42] 

 

Will Barron:

Well with that mate, I’ve got one final question. I’ve asked you this before. I’m going to ask you again, and that is if you could go back in time as- in fact, no. We’ll, go more direct with this one, if you could go back pre COVID and speak to your 18 month younger self, what would be one piece of advice you’d give him to help him become better at selling?

 

“Ironically, for us to speed up i.e. take the next step forward, we’ve got to slow down.” – Michael Veltri · [37:26] 

 

Michael Veltri:

The advice I would give myself pre COVID is definitely to slow down. COVID made me slow down. Ironically Will, for us to speed up i.e. take the next step forward, we got to slow down, just slow down, Sparky, slow down. Because COVID forced us all to slow down and I’ll be doggone once I was forced to slow down, all of the amazing ways forward I’ve discovered so far. So that’s it, just slow down. I talk to audiences about this all the time, the importance of slowing down. For once, I should listen to myself.

 

Parting Thoughts: Michael’s Books, Keynotes, and Where to Find Him · [37:56]

 

Will Barron:

Well, with that Michael, tell us more about your leadership keynotes and anything else that you’re up to as well.

 

Michael Veltri:

So Michaelveltri.com has all my information. I often speak to a lot of sales teams, a lot of sales kickoffs, on how to be a better leader to make better sales. And so anyone interested in hearing more, please just visit Michaelveltri.com. I’d love to hear from anybody and help any way I can.

 

Will Barron:

Amazing stuff, I’ll link to your website. Everything else that we talked about in this episode, over at salesman.org. And with that, Michael, I appreciate the conversation. You’ve given me a few things to ponder on, on my week off, probably document and do a bit of journaling and all that good stuff on it. I genuinely appreciate that, mate. And I want to thank you for joining us again on the Salesman Podcast.

 

Michael Veltri:

Thank you, will. Thanks for having me.

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