Podcast > Success Skills > #640: Underrated Sales Success Habits With Noel Wax

#640: Underrated Sales Success Habits With Noel Wax

Noel Wax is a former CBS Sports executive turned entrepreneur. Noel is the President and co-founder of GroundSwell Group.

On this episode of the show with Noel we’re working through some of the most useful but underrated sales success habits.

Resources:

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Coming up on today’s episode of the salesman podcast…

Speaker 2: My number one success habit is what I call owning your morning writing. The playbook, and I’m going to talk about it from a business perspective, will because I think there’s a lot of books and stories and podcasts and things out there about how important it is for you to do things in the morning, make your bed, meditate, all that stuff from a business perspective. Once you get all that out of the way, own the first and I’ll just put a number. I own the first two hours of your business.

Speaker 1: Hello sales nation and willpower and host of the salesman podcast, the world’s most listened to, B to B sales show. If you haven’t already, make sure to click subscribe and with that let’s meet today’s guests.

Speaker 2: Hi everyone. I am Nolax IMV, CEO and cofounder of a company called groundswell group. We operate in the world of socially responsible marketing, both as an agency and a platform, incredibly fun, exciting work that we’re doing trying to change the world. You can find me all over social, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook. You can find us at groundswell group. Dot.

Speaker 1: On this episode of the show with the legend. That is, no, we’re diving into the most important sales success habits. We’re dive into some that are particularly counter intuitive, some of the incredibly underrated and some that will just be so foundational that if you’re not doing it and will have a dramatic impact on a hundred year sales career, but your life in general moving forward. And so with all that said, with that bear hype right there, let’s jump right in. What is the most important success habits that you know, you see an engineer to yourself and you see in and over successful people as well.

Speaker 2: I so badly wanted to give you two answers as well, but I am gonna honour the question and give just one and it is a really, really important one and I’m grateful for you asking the question cause it reminds me how important this is. Um, my number one success habit is what I call owning your morning. I’m writing the playbook and I’m going to talk about it from a business perspective will because I think there’s a lot of books and stories and podcasts and things out there about how important it is for you to do things in the morning, make your bed, meditate, all that stuff from a business perspective, once you get all that out of the way, own the first and I’ll just put a number. I own the first two hours of your business day, whether that’s eight 30 to 10 30 we are all exposed to so many distractions and we are so reactive to things and a business partner, a colleague, a friend sends an email or a text and all of a sudden you’re off in a new direction.

Speaker 2: My background is in sports, sports marketing and sports media. I think of it like the first 20 plays of a coach’s playbook. It does not matter what the competition is doing. It does not matter what comes into your inbox, control the first part of your day. It’s the best way to be proactive about things. You get to set the priorities. You get to determine what are the most important things for you to work on, and then the rest of the day you can figure it out. You can be reactive. There’s ways to carve out your time, but that way you are able to focus in on the stuff that’s most important to you and to your business. Decide what those things are and stay locked into that. Until you’re done, make that appointment with yourself and figure out what that is. It is essential to success.

Speaker 1: I’m going to ask you in a second, I’m gonna ask you some advice on a product that we are in the mix of launching because it falls into this category and want to see if there’s anything we’ve missed, anything you think we should add, but before I kind of put words into your mouth with that, how do we know what the most important thing of the day is? When do we plan it? Is this planned at the weekend beforehand? Is this the night before, and do we use a planner? Do we put this in our calendar? How do we force this upon ourselves? Because as you rightly alluded to here, the sales manager starts ringing, a customer starts ringing, there’s fires, it starts kind of appearing all over the place at 9:00 AM. How do we keep in control of all of this?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have to be respectful of my position versus many that might be listening to this I you mentioned sales manager. Look, there’s other people that are always clamouring for our time and other things that are scheduled. If you don’t plan it, someone else will. So I almost answered that. Say I don’t care when you plan it, just plan it. So if it’s the day before or if it’s the morning of, if you get up early in the morning at six 30 and let me, let me take a half hour to map out my day. Where is that two hour block? You might have a sales meeting in the morning every morning at eight 30 or someone that expects that time. It might be a little hard to get up at six 30 and start your day because that other thing is happening. So while I say control the first two hours or block of time, it might be at 10 30 start.

Speaker 2: But for me it’s best case scenario is the night before before I go to bed. It makes me, it helps me to sleep easier to know that my next day is planned. I also as the CEO and cofounder of the company, I don’t have people telling me where I should go and when I should do things on meeting, I should begin. I’m able to do it. But if I think back to my days of sales management or account executive work, it really was about it’s communication. So if you have a set meeting once a week on Thursdays at eight 30 with your sales team and your sales manager, okay, but the rest of those days it’s okay to communicate with your sales manager and say, you know, this first block of time is set for me to make sure I’m coordinating the best day. Maybe it’s when I’m making my cold calls, maybe it’s what I’m doing, my outreach, whatever it is you feel is important. So best case scenario night before, it’s okay the day of. But even if you just block out that two hour window of time and say, okay, what do I need to do in this time now that I’m in it to make sure that the have the most productive day focused on the things that are going to directly results in success for me. Because as you’re building those things day after day and it’s an appointment with yourself, you’re building the foundation for successful habits.

Speaker 1: Do you have a framework of what’s that most important task looks like? And so for example, I like to look at it or think of it as Eva, I guess there’s two elements to this. If I did this one thing today, did nothing else, I’d be happy. That’s one way of framing it and the other ways, what’s this one thing I can do that makes all the rest of the stuff obsolete? So what’s that one call I could make that closes today’s worth of business? So I’d have to cold call 50 random people later on. So that’s how I think about it. But do you have a, a framework no. Of how you arrange sets up or prioritise your, your most important task on the daily front?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I, I’m a list keeper. Um, so I will look at that and some of those are easy, quick check off things and other things a little bit deeper that that block of time can also be considered deep work. But there should be, and there’s a book out there called the one thing that I love and it’s really focused in, in locking in on what is that one thing that is ultimately more important than if anything else comes along. This is your priority and you are able to respectfully let other people know that this is what I’m focused on during this time. So for me specifically around my work and it is around revenue for our businesses is the most important thing to allow us runway allowed the freedom to do what we want to do to deliver successful results for our clients and partners.

Speaker 2: So what for me, it’s constantly going back to is what I’m working on helping me to develop these relationships that ultimately drive revenue for our business. And there’s a back end of that too, but that is our important block of time and for I think many of the people listening to this, it is how are you most successfully driving revenue? And that can be a combination of those things. Maybe it’s making a whole bunch of cold calls to set up the next week. Maybe it’s focusing on your key relationships and moving those relationships forward. I talk a lot whenever I’m talking about this, about the value proposition, because a lot of times we were in our business, we said, well, I’m bringing value to someone else’s business by offering them our services. May or may not be true. Are you offering real value to your relationships or is every time you’re communicating with somebody, you’re asking them to close the dealer for a piece of business. So to be determined for the individuals on inside of that revenue area, what is the priority and what’s the lock in? But it’s usually a combination of many of those things. And maybe over the course of a of a week, if you have five of those blocks of time, you could have four or five different things to focus on cause that also changes it up for you and keeps it fresh and exciting.

Speaker 1: So let me pitch you this and I want to come at this from the angle of like legitimately tell me if you think it’s a, an altar load of nonsense. If you think it’s real shit, because I don’t want this to be a kind of a pitch for a product in the middle of the episode, the new version of the sales school, the audience can find it where, where they know that they can find it cause they’re probably out of 15 adverts either side of this content, um, which [inaudible] dive into all of that. It comes with a quarterly planner. So in the planet it has essentially a list of to do’s down one side and then it’s a Gantt chart. So you can only fill in the specific times. You can’t double down on times on prospecting or whatever it is. So that forced people to visualise their time.

Speaker 1: But the thing that won’t ask you about is we have a most important task each day and we have a bold action each day. They may be the same thing, they may be different things and essentially the, the graph, the chart is coloured in so you can only get it done between nine and 12 each morning to visually encourage people to kind of eat the frog as Brian Tracy would say, and get the, get the hard things done first. Now I’m constantly going back and forth between having a most important task, having a bold task, having one in the same I thing that there’s some potentially value in having the two for salespeople in that there is the most important task might be your accounting is all your expense report is six months overdue like it was for me and my sales role every kind of quarter and your sales managers on your back, if you’ll get done, you’re gonna get sucked.

Speaker 1: The bold action though I feel like is what we should be focused on, on our salespeople. That is something that is difficult to do. That’s unfortunate conversation. That’s a customer complaints. That’s these things we put off and procrastinate the overtime become bigger and deeper problems. Whereas if we just deal with it and don’t procrastinate on it, the problems get solved. So with all that said, no. Is there anything you would change about the structure of how we are suggesting that members of the sales school plan their mornings? Is there anything you’d add to is anything you’d remove a, what were your feelings on that?

Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s, I think that’s a great uh, perspective willing. I I don’t want to add, just to add, cause I think I should on its own, it sounds like it’s a very productive and healthy way to approach that. I, I would only say uh, outcomes both good and bad in how that potentially ties into whatever that thing, the bold statement or the bold to do on that list is, is to really connect. For me at this point in my career. It’s a psychological connection with an outcome. If I don’t do what potentially could happen, and this works from the individual in sales performer at the, at the entry level on up to the top executive and just working on multimillion dollar partnership deals or, or and the positive outcome when I do this, this is ultimately what could happen. And that’s a goal of whatever we are driven or motivated by.

Speaker 2: And that’s expense report is a is a great example. I mean I, I put those off for so long. At some points they would even say at this point we’re not reimbursing you for that. So that was obviously a negative outcome of not happening, but also, look, it’s my money. I already spent it. I just need to get this thing done and how much time is it going to take and let me just block everything out and do it. So the positive and negative outcomes as you attach it to that task, I think can be very effective. And it allows us to connect with the end result that we want to achieve or will not happen if we don’t do it.

Speaker 1: Got it. That makes total sense. I never really thought about like that before, but rather than just making a statement of an I was fat very well, it was expenses and mileage, so the expenses, the company which go you know tough shit, you’re not getting that cash back. Any money wouldn’t be that much. It’d be a couple hundred quid or whatever it is. But the mileage is needed for tax purposes because we had company cars so the legitimately needed that of why is wise, they will leave themselves open to all kinds of things. So they would absolutely hound the heck out of us for that. And what States in it, how you described them, this is really useful of if I don’t do this today in this time slot and going the extra step further rather than a, I’m probably gonna do this at some point. But saying the negative side of things, that would immediately, if I saw that on a piece of paper, cause I forget stuff.

Speaker 1: If I write something down and I, you know, I don’t catch it two hours later, I’ve totally forgotten. It’s common brain. Never mind if I’ve slept on it. No. If I sleep on anything mate, it goes in one ear and out the yoga. So I think that’d be a really useful way to kind of document things. So I’ll, I appreciate that mate. And I’ll, I’ll contemplate how we can put that into the system. Okay. So back to the a, the premise of the show. So before we get into further success habits, why do they need to be success habits as opposed to success things or success kind of monthly occasions?

Speaker 2: It’s a muscle. Um, and, and often it’s hard to do like going to the gym or any of the things that we know are really good for ourselves, but it feels so much better or easier to sit in front of the TV and eat your popcorn and have a real, and that can be a good experience too. So I think creating the muscle or habit because if we ultimately connect ourselves to the results we want to achieve, then the habits that we create around those will ultimately be part of that successful or positive experience that we’re having and they are, they’re difficult and we all have these things. I think it’s sometimes tough for us to own our deficiencies or our vulnerabilities or the things that we’re not comfortable doing. But once you realise that every single person goes through the same sets of criteria and decision making and it’s a lot easier.

Speaker 2: I heard something recently described as the escape of television and I never thought of it in that way, but I would think it was, you know what? I needed a 20 I need a 30 minute relaxation moment where I can just dumb it down, not think about anything, but I found myself 30 led to an hour, led to two hours and it just became an escape from the responsibilities. So creating the muscle or the habit of things ultimately feeds it. Now you can also learn that these things may or may not be for you. I got a little bit over the top in some of the habits I was creating and what my morning will look like and the routine that it became started to feel robotic and I don’t like robotic. I like habits that are good and positive, but allow some flexibility inside of that to still be human, to still have a smile on your face and not everything is, Oh my next thing that’s at minute eight 32 in the morning is this.

Speaker 2: So each of us will have to evaluate it in a way that works for us, but if you don’t get started or you don’t create the habits you tend to operate, or I do at least in a much more reactive environments. Again, it’s a way to control your day, control your outcomes, and control your success based on the habits you create. You can say, I want to have a smoothie every morning. I want to work out, I want to make my bed. But then you find that one of those things doesn’t work for you. It takes too much time to do something. So there’s tinkering that happens all the time. Until you find the groove that really works for you. But when you were in that groove and it becomes habitual, you find the ultimate success and outcomes that you desire and that you want to achieve as a result of the things you’ve put into it.

Speaker 1: So down to to this might be a daily greens movie or it might be making your bed or something simple, but what’s a underrated success? Habits that we should be very seriously

Speaker 2: considering implementing into our day that affects everything else. Try to bring value. Uh, it’s a really hard thing to do. But in this day and age for man, and we talked about this last time, we’ll, I’m not super high on the spray and pray concept or model. I as someone recently said, a mile wide, an inch deep. That really resonated with me. It’s not the way that I run my business or my key relationships. I always look at that and say, who are, it’s the, you know, I’d even call the 95 five rule. We hear a lot the 80 20 rule, but who are the key people in my life and in my business that I want to impact or the, again, the outcome is there. I’ll give you a real example. I have a dear friend of mine that I grew up with and we’ve known each other since we are seven years old and he is now a chief marketing officer at a very prominent health company out here in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2: And I went, we, we are friends, but disconnected more recently. So our relationship was there. I went immediately in for the sale of, Hey, you’re doing this, I’m doing this, let’s get together and talk business. And it was, it couldn’t have been more of a turnoff. I almost felt like I was getting a little psychotic. I’m like, dude, what are you doing? Why aren’t you responding to me? We’ve been friends for so long and I just, I had to pull myself back from that immediately. I just thought, Oh way. It wasn’t, I wasn’t bringing value, wasn’t sincere and the relationship needed some tending to over the last, what’s, you know, the last 10 years of not of us not being super close. So that’s just an example of value. Had I gone in and said, let’s reconnect, it would be great to see you. I’d love to catch up on what you’ve got going on.

Speaker 2: I’d love to fill you in on what I have doing. Let’s get our wives together. Let’s have a cup of coffee. Just something a little less aggressive than the in your face. So I liken that also to the world of social media. We all are inundated with inbound stuff. You hear on LinkedIn all the time, you accept someone’s invitation. The next one is, Hey, here’s the service or product that I’ve got. Click here, sign up for meeting with me. It’s just, I think there are steps that are being skipped, skipped, and the, I think it works for someone that many, the spray and pray mall, let’s get thousands of messages out there and if three, four or 500 people respond, we’ve got a great business. My business doesn’t run that way. So value, value, value. I have to stop myself before I make a call or stop myself before I reach out to somebody and say, where am I in this process?

Speaker 2: I’ve had brought enough value. Maybe it’s offering something to somebody, Hey I noticed you support this cause I do too. I’d love to make a contribution or find a way to help anything other than asking for the deal, at least in the initial couple of processes and over time that’ll happen. So be thoughtful about bringing value. It’s hard to do but don’t always ask for the deal in sale and maybe don’t put your business first to say my value to you is what my company has to offer that will ultimately help you. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a delicate area but ultimately it is about these relationships and how you develop deeper relationships with people and then you have your pipeline of how you’ve, how you funnel people through initial calls to more meaningful relationships. So ultimately relationships and partnerships.

Speaker 1: So I love this Knoll seems to be linked and tied with self-awareness and we’ve covered self awareness on the show a million times. So I don’t wanna dive too deep into it. I’m thrilled to death to be, to be Frank bought. With that said, I’ve never come at it with this angle of is there anything that we can do to habitualize self-awareness because I find I need self-awareness when I’ve just been on self aware and done something stupid and then I have a realisation of, Oh, I should’ve done things differently. Or you know, in your example I should have stopped for a minute and thought about the ratio or the timeline or whatever it is and perhaps I would have had a different kind of first few steps moving forward. Is there any way to make that a habit to, or any way to instil that into us as a habit so that we can, can focus on it without consciously having to have it brought up to us?

Speaker 2: Yeah. The word, the two words that come to mind, one we control is preparation. Um, that is the one part of the process that that does not entail other people often and it’s our own preparation for whatever that next thing is gonna happen. Whether it’s a conversation, a meeting and dialogue, how much education we have about the person we’re talking to that makes it feel like the next piece is there. There can be some empathy there. Can we put ourselves, we’re talking about our own self awareness, but can we as best we can put ourselves in someone else’s situation with a knowledge set that we’ve got to understand empathy about what ultimately could serve this person really well in my capacity. If I can put myself in their shoes and understand the direction that I would like this to go or what might be meaningful to them.

Speaker 2: Those two things, working side by side or in collaboration with each other can be incredibly powerful tools and incredibly useful. I’m sure you’ve talked on your show about, I think the book is the power of why, what we’re motivated by, what we’re stimulated by, what’s meaningful to us, but those two things can work really well because I find the more prepared I am for conversation and sometimes it doesn’t take a lot. One of my styles is if I’m about to have a call with somebody, it’s a quick look at their LinkedIn profile, some stuff about their business. So I can have a couple little tidbits because I don’t know exactly where the conversation goes or we’ll go, but that’s more than most people do. Oh, I noticed you went to school here. I saw this. It’s a point of commonality between people that opens up the dialogue, which is where the empathy can come in.

Speaker 2: Oh, that’s really interesting that you did that. So starting off, taking a deep breath, starting off a little more slowly in the beginning, trying to really get to know in the short time you have with someone while being meaningful. So like we did, we’ll, before we went live on there, we chatted for a few minutes. We asked some questions, you asked some questions, what’s been going on? Gives us a chance to connect at a deeper level. Makes me more open to a conversation, which is where you’re going to get incredible information to ultimately serve that partner or client.

Speaker 1: For sure. I make a purpose and I do. It’s super manipulatively to dive into the guests business and background and stuff. And I always do that because when I get interviewed on podcasts and which is somewhat regularly at the moment, and then the guest, whether they, whether it’s nerves on their parts, however there’s a lack of structure or whatever it is, and they just don’t print it into, it’s always a bit weird. So just for the audience to kind of, what was the same, pull back the curtain or breakdown that the fourth wall or whatever the saying is. I always try and have that ten five minutes with the guest just to what we’ve told. We’ve talked about your success basically. And I was asking a few questions from the uh, the team that you’re building and I’m building a similar thing perhaps or a little bit behind what you are Nolan. And it does make a difference, doesn’t it? I feel like it does make a difference to how you, you said the CR, what I hope to achieve of it makes you slightly more open to a deeper conversation.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think it’s also, well, it’s deconstructing that outcome that we talked a little bit about. So I ultimately know what I want to achieve, whether I do or don’t, we’ll involve someone else in the conversation. So there’s portions of that that I have no control over, but I want this outcome. But to arrive at that, here are the things that need to happen along the way. So like you did before the call, which I’m sure that, or the our conversation, which I’m sure you do with everybody, we used to do something where my old sales manager would call it. You know you have your briefcase, you’re walking into a meeting of all this stuff that you want to talk about in your briefcase physically and literally take the briefcase, put it down. So you know, I’ve got a bunch of stuff in here that I definitely want to talk to you about, but before we do, tell me about what’s going on.

Speaker 2: It’s just a, an actual manifestation of where you want that conversation to go to. It’s really funny and I’ve heard you say the word shit a couple of times, so I’ll do it, but we ain’t hired a guy one time where it was so funny because that exact example I gave you, he would go to his, we would call his invisible bag of bullshit next to the chair that he was sitting in. It became a joke for all of us. Like what is he pulling out of that? I don’t believe him. He’s not authentic, he’s not truthful. And it sort of made that metaphor of the of your briefcase. A little silly for me. So we called it the bag of bullshit after that. But it is something where for each of us to really manifest, again, the deconstruction of that outcome that we want, but it’s also the way that we would want to be talked to. I want someone to ask me, I want someone to know about me. I want to feel comfortable and safe in my conversation. And the more we can be vulnerable, the more we can be open, the better that we can serve each other in a business and professional setting.

Speaker 1: This is the weird question to ask, but I think it could be lead to a good outcome of what is the most mundane success habit that we should be trying to implement to our lives. Something that is so just fundamental and boring that the audience will have to kind of much stick their eyes open for two minutes if you go through it. But it is kind of fundamental and important.

Speaker 2: That’s so cool. It sounds like one of those interview questions where it’s like, I can’t think of, I don’t want to do a negative answer to that. So how do I make myself look really good with a negative angle? So I just think of it as getting, getting ourselves out of our comfort zone. Um, it, there’s some excitement around it, so it’s not the most mundane thing, but cha challenge ourselves. I, I love in the morning if I’m walking to work or I’m into an office, we have a, we work office space now, which is so cool. It’s just if someone’s not in the middle of something, I just say hello. And it’s, it’s a success habit that gets me moving along. It also strangely will, it makes me realise how little it takes to be, I’m just going to, it’s going to sound terrible but better than many people because most people don’t do that.

Speaker 2: And most people don’t respond well to it. A lot of people light up, which gets me excited. But I think about the people that just walked by a solid and won’t, won’t even make eye contact. Like, Oh, you know what? I feel better because I’m not that. And I ye I could catch him in a bad mood. I could catch, I’m not interested in talking. They may think I’m a crazy person, but it helps me. And it is a mundane thing and a very simple thing to do to get your juices and get your energy going in the right direction. As just get yourself out of that box, out of that comfort zone. Say hello to somebody as you pass by. Greet somebody in the morning, wave some to somebody in the car, get those good habits going and it actually is easy to do, but by getting ourselves into those positions and into those situations and amazing things do open up. So I’d call that to sort of a mundane but really important part of the process of success

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Speaker 1: So you can see why zip recruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes by trying zip recruiter for free at our web address, which is ziprecruiter.com forward slash sales man. That’s ziprecruiter.com forward slash S a L E S M a N ziprecruiter.com forward slash sales man because ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. I’ve got a dark angle, slightly more darker angle on this of in the hospitals I used to work in, in medical device sales regularly at see the competition because maybe gynaecology, urology and coronal surgery used our equipment who are the used the competitors. So there’d be, there’d be around in the beat, they helping out. And I would always make an effort, a huge effort to go and shake the hand, say hello to them, have a conversation and two things would happen. One they’d always, for whatever reason, maybe, maybe I, maybe I look gentle and nice so people spill the beans a little bit more than what they should.

Speaker 1: I don’t think I’m an incredible influencer or manipulator or anything like that. They’d always tell me what they’re up to and I’d, I’d immediately then go into, try and take that budget for myself. They would always open up just cause I would be so open and, and, and happy and kind of the opposite of what they expect when, when I bump into them. So what, they would always do that. And then two, I’d always, well not always, nine times out of 10 go, I’m going to crush this dude. I’m like, you know, again, not a superiority of I’m, I’m better than them as a, as an individual or you know, my products by them or anything like that. I’d just go, this person’s just human. I could see the flaws in them. They’re probably thinking the same at mid, they’d probably look at me thinking, look, that lanky idiots over the nearly used harsher language and to describe myself by Halbach, they’re probably thinking the same thing.

Speaker 1: So maybe there’s not a competitive advantage if you’re both kind of getting that boost. But nine times out of 10 I’d go, do you know what? I’m going to, I’m going to crush this person, I’m going to put in more work than then I’m going to do whatever it is. And the reason I made this point is I, I feel like we sometimes forget that nine times out of 10 in sales, it’s a zero sum game, right? If the customer’s gonna buy, they’re only gonna buy one product. So if I know my competitors and I’ve spoke to them and I feel more confidence having done so, of course it’s going set us up at an advantage in any kind of negotiation or if there’s a series of presentations or anything like that. Right.

Speaker 2: I would absolutely agree with that. And I think it does. I, if we feel like it gives us that competitive advantage, we are all driven. Even though in this world that we’re speaking in your podcast, it’s, it’s sales based and revenue based, but we still have completely unique and different styles to arrive at the outcome. They will in different motivations to do that. So yes, for me, that person, I don’t know what that person is thinking, but I do know what I am and I do know that one, I feel better about myself from walking in with a level of confidence or I’ve opened a dialogue with everybody. It’s just, it’s really fun. I mean you and to be around it and then when it does end up coming back to you in a way where maybe sometimes people would mention it to you, Hey, well that was really cool when you came in. Eight of the nine people that come in here don’t say hello or don’t open the dialogue or don’t bring the quest song when they come to say hello, that was really cool. You made our day. And when you get that thought, that feedback, it makes it sort of stamps the reward on it. You don’t need that necessarily. I don’t need that necessarily, but every once in a while you do get that if you’re consistent with your approach to that kind of a conversation

Speaker 1: for sure. And I feel this, this scales better on the the end of sales where perhaps you’re going into large accounts and you’re trying to take them away from your competitors. That gives me motivation. Knowing the person, Jerry Jones, whoever it is I’m competing against. This is what you kind of alluded to at the top of the show, which I don’t think is sustainable, which is beer, end of sales, where you sat there making 500 cold calls a day or spamming people on LinkedIn. You don’t really know who you can beat them with because well, you just competing with yourself of how many people you can barely touch in the marketplace.

Speaker 2: Absolutely.

Speaker 1: Good. I’ve got one final question on this and then the final question again, a bit of a weird one to ask about. I’m trying to kind of, uh, uncover some insightful habits as opposed to the obvious ones here, but is there anything counter intuitive that we should be doing each day that we consciously choose not to, that we consciously avoid that would be, would be useful for us even if we don’t realise it’s going to be useful for us?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, well you’re getting deep on me. Uh, counter-intuitive. Take the time to care for yourself outside of the grind of the business and the hustle. Um, I’m, I’m a little bit more advanced in my life than certainly I’m not, I’m going to be 50 soon, you know, in my twenties and thirties. I would have never thought to consider this, but I think the things that we can do outside of the quote unquote grind or hustle are sometimes counter intuitive today. To me it’s not about who is working harder than somebody else and who’s making more of those calls. It’s more meaningful parts of that. What gives us the energy and strength to continue in the times that feel a little more difficult. It’s easy when the phone feels like it’s as light as a feather, uh, than it is when it’s a, you know, 10 pound weights.

Speaker 2: So are you getting your workouts in? Is your mind square and straight? Are you taking the to do that? Yes, it’s at the expense of some of the other business things that you might be doing. But equally if not more important to keep your physical and mental wellbeing in shape and to can, we talked about the muscle of habit. That is so important. Cause if you’re not getting enough sleep and you’re, you’re overdoing it on caffeine and you’re not getting a workout here and there to take care of your cause, those are all things that feed the confidence machine in the muscle that you are, that you can become. So it does feel like that you, maybe you don’t stay at the office until 10 o’clock making more cold calls and let your boss know that you’re there three hours behind everybody else and you got more stuff done though.

Speaker 2: If that’s your motivation, that’s okay. But do take the time for the other stuff. I actually love shutting down. I love it nowadays, so, and I don’t have to make apologies to anybody. If you reach me at four o’clock on a Sunday afternoon, you may not hear back from me on July eight 30 or nine o’clock on Monday. That is my time. And yes, of course, if it’s something that’s critical or important, I might pay attention to it. But putting my phone down for periods of time and really enjoying that time, it’s, it’s really hard to do these days to say I look at my phone as much as anybody, but I also want to be present in the other places. So it’s a little bit more counter intuitive than it feels right now to say I’m turning it off from putting it down and putting in a way, and I’m going to talk to you, my family, my wife, my mother, whoever I’m talking to that you get my undivided attention. I think that’s really important for our overall wellbeing.

Speaker 1: So I’m, I’m super focused on my sleep at the moment. I use a Lumi alarm clock. I get up at 6:00 AM regardless, but this alarm clock gradually brightens up the room and that makes me less groggy, essentially pulls me out of my, if I’m in a state of deep sleep or REM sleep or ever pulls me out of it and I feel better for that. I also track my sleep, the amount of hours, not a time spent in bed. Um, fruit. There’s numerous drops to do it by use a or a ring. And I also also use bedsheets, which I think Apple bought recently so that may or may not exist as I, uh, as this show goes live. And it’s interesting because I found that even though this is so sad to say this, I go to bed about half nine and I’ll read a book for half an hour or so and then I’ll start to drift off.

Speaker 1: Um, I found that I wasn’t getting as much sleep as what I thought I was cause that should be a solid eight hours from kind of if I got my mouse right there from tensile six, I found that I’m only getting seven and a half, seven hours. Cause my girlfriend comes to bed a bit later than me, so she wakes me up every night. And it wasn’t enough that I was, you know, why to waken, come get back to sleep. But when I looked at the data, I was physically awake in the different ways that it was tracking it. So that was an eyeopener for me and it hasn’t really changed cause I can’t convince it to combat earlier.

Speaker 2: So how do you, how do you, how do you resolve that extra hour that’s missing?

Speaker 1: I haven’t bought the, the, the point of the tale is that I’ve now got data that shows that it’s not me getting a gut feeling in the morning, whether I’m, you know, better or worse. Even with, um, when I’m training jujitsu, when we train a real hard session, I probably, I feel better having to nine hours of sleep rather than eight and the next I’m, I’m more productive. I do more work in, I do more than one hour’s worth of extra work, if that makes sense. So it’s an investment into the next day as opposed to just a lose lose scenario. So I’ve got data on it, even though you’re kind of dotted, really changed cause mrs just won’t go to bed early. She likes, uh, to, uh, to let her hair down. I guess when I go to sleep she gets up, she’s more of introverted so she gets an hour to herself to watch TV or read a and not have me pestering her. Um, so a good, good job. She’s listened to the show cause uh, it’s like enough all the time on here, but without, no. Is there anything, and final thing on this mate, is there anything with regards to taking care of yourself or anything that we’ve talked about? I guess that you track that you want data on because you, you may think that you’re doing well, but until you look at the numbers, you’re not actually all that. Sure.

Speaker 2: It’s an unofficial will, um, is, but sleep and fitness are two things that I do, um, on officially manage. I don’t feel like I need as much sleep as most people do. I have a similar situation at home where it’s uh, my partner is up later than I am and I like to be in bed early and get my sleep. I, I’ve sort of stopped worrying about it cause I try to be productive. But also, you know, the upshot of all this is sort of knowing ourselves and where our most efficient strike zones are. To your question about the analytics over the fitness part of it, I do. I know that I am a better performer. I know that I am more aware. I know that I’m more attentive. I know that I’m more authentic and all the positive words that come along with that.

Speaker 2: What I’m getting my four workouts a week and I will oftentimes have something in my calendar say, okay I am not doing this enough right now. I will not be as effective or productive if I don’t take the time right now to do this. The question is always, when is the time? Because I’ve, I’ve sort of unwelcomed this corporate mentality that I had about when things were appropriate to do and I’m finally at a place where I say, there is always inappropriate time to do something that you really need to do and it does not matter. Case in point, my sister’s 50th birthday this weekend in Los Angeles, my mother said to me, you know, no, you can’t do that. It’s, you are not, you cannot wear a tie to this event. So guess what I did, I wore a tie to the event. I don’t like people to tell me what is appropriate, not appropriate for me to do. I know what works best for me. There’s obviously occasions for it to be good and bad, but that workout thing is really important. So I know that I’m much more productive as a result of the fitness and it’s something that I usually will take off in exchange for something else.

Speaker 1: Got it. I, I know as a side note for this, I totally agree. I’m uh, not as nice a person. If I don’t go to jujitsu or I’m training for a half marathon, again at the moment, if I don’t put in those hours, literally hours grinding, I’m, I’ve just got too much energy and I tend into really, some people might think I’m annoying already on the show. They probably probably not regular listeners, but I get really annoying. I get, I irritate people with the level of energy that I have if I don’t get rid of it somehow.

Speaker 2: So do you, do you have analytics around your fitness that you found to be productive as a result of your output directly related to that?

Speaker 1: So, and, and this is probably a conversation to have author because half the audience might switch off at this point. I know and I track my calories in versus calories expended during exercises. No one can measure that very well. There’s no apps or tools or technology to do that for numerous reasons. But I know that if I eat, if I eat my kind of, uh, 2000, 800 calories or so that I need each day to maintain my weight and then I trained jujitsu really hard. If I don’t have more calories on top of that, I become more irritable and more irritable to other people. So I, I measured the length of time of exercise with the ruining it gives me all the other data as well with my Watchers. Um, on top of that by more interested in a rough idea of how much, uh, I’ve expended and then I need to match that up with the calories I’ve had during the day of wise at things just go to Potter.

Speaker 1: Similarly, if I have way more calories now, if we go out for pizza and some beers or whatever it is, I don’t necessarily get down and groggy the next day. I’ve just got a load of energy that I need to burn off again. So regards to measuring things, I don’t get too deep into the analytics. I sometimes work out of a heart rate strap and, but that’s more for the athletic performance side of things as opposed to as opposed to anything else. But I do measure calories in and then colours expended and that kind of balances me out. But I realise this sounds slightly psychopathic as I’m describing again on the show. For anyone who hasn’t trained in for something competitive like this,

Speaker 2: if you’re doing things that are good for your body and mind, your output and energy levels will be a commensurate with that. So let’s all do good things for our body.

Speaker 1: Good. Well we’ve got no, I’ve got one final question mate. I’m gonna ask everyone that comes on the show and we’ll wrap up with this. And that is if you could go back in time and speak to your younger self, what would be the one piece of advice you’d give him to help him become better at selling?

Speaker 2: Wonderful. Final question. We’ll um, be vulnerable. Uh, put yourself out there and don’t worry as much about what other people think of you as feeling and finding your most authentic self. It’s where you will operate in the most extraordinary success and efficiency vortex when you are true and honest with yourself. It took me so long to figure that out cause I had to keep thinking I needed to have a mask on or something other. I separated my work and my business, my friends from my business associates and the more people got the first, the more I got to know my real self and then the more I allowed people to get to know. The more real me. To our point about when you asked earlier how are things going? We’re doing really well with business and I think it’s because people want to work with the real, the real may and these are the relationships I’ve forged over the years and yes the business is good and what we’re offering is good, but that would be the thing to have done it sooner and it takes a while sometimes. I mean you’re trying to be something for many years that you may or may not be your may or may not ultimately ever be, but all we can really be is our truest self. And that’s where we serve our community ourselves and our business partners the best.

Speaker 1: Well, tell us a little bit more about the business where we can find out more about as well, because it is fascinating. It’s a, is it, what would you consider a completely unique twist on the, the idea of marketing and agencies? Because I’ve never sent anyone quote with anything quite like it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. It is so unique. Well, thanks for asking that. We’re just, we’re doing really well because ultimately we are serving our communities. We’re serving the nonprofit space, we’re finding money and exposure and support for them. We’re doing it through brands, so we call it socially responsible marketing. And all that really means is both sides win the businesses that are supporting the communities win because the communities, the nonprofits are giving them real marketing value back in exchange for their support and contribution. It is historically been in one way street. And the other thing is it’s not a one to one connection. We’re not saying to somebody, Hey, you want to work with the biggest veterans organisation, go to wounded warrior. You want breast cancer. It’s this, we work with small to midsize organisations that are willing to work really hard for the contributions that they give. So that model didn’t exist. We introduced some technology into it allows us to scale utilising artificial intelligence. It’s really, really powerful. But yes, the doing good part of it feels really good and running a business in that way makes us excited about the growth that we’ve had,

Speaker 1: man. So tell us where we can find it and where we can find more about you. Yes,

Speaker 2: please check us out. A, we are groundswell group.com. Our site is, uh, as, as a modern and current as it possibly can be with all of our case studies and successes that we’ve had, the work that we’re doing. You can find us on all the social platforms, groundswell group at LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook. Uh, please check that out. And also, you’re welcome to reach out to me if you’ve heard anything here and my conversation with will. Um, I’m on LinkedIn Knoll wax and I respond to everything. Always willing to give tips and pointers to anybody trying to make their way in the world of sales and revenue and partnerships and success.

Speaker 1: Good stuff. We’ll, I’ll link to all of that in the show notes for this episode over at sales Manda org and without Nolan. Thank you for your time, your insights. As always, may I always appreciate them and for joining us on the salesman podcast.

Speaker 2: I love hanging out with you. We’ll you asked some very, very thoughtful questions and it’s a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you.

Speaker 3: [inaudible].

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